Ken, this doesn't only happen at the top tier. Since the demise of the ABCC Victorian Government projects are increasingly being awarded to CFMEU EBA builders in the second and third tier, even when the non-EBA builders price is less. It seems we shouldn't bother tendering on a project if we are up against an EBA builder, we can't seem to win even though we beat them on price. The taxpayer is paying big time for this corruption!
Ive been aware that the 'process' cascades down below the top tier. One of the keys with the ABCC was that it stopped/outlawed the cascade. So it doesn't surprise me that the cascade is now in full operation. Essentially the 'free market' in construction has ceased to operate. Its now a 'political' market'.
Competition laws combined with the ABCC where the key trigger was/would need to be that failure to comply means exclusion from government construction jobs both state and federal. Watch the behaviour change …,fast
As a member and Dickson resident were going to dump Dutton, and do you understand that Deregistration makes absolutely no difference, as in we don't go away and we're no longer under any regulation by government so if you actually think you know what criminality is, you've got no idea!
Describe criminality then. I’m pretty bloody aware of it. But my point is that it’s the breaking of the commercial triggers that’s the essence of suppressing criminality
Deregister criminal developers. Make them personally accountable when their lack of foresight, management and leadership causes a death. Hold them accountable, lock them up and things would change for the better real quick when they are forced to be accountable. Commercial construction is the realm of white collar criminals and muderers who will be held accountable for their lack of actual talent.
The ABCC applied sanctions against corrupt builders just as it did against corrupt unions. Thats the key to understanding the corruption. It takes two. Sanctions must be taken against all criminals, whether they are in the unions or developers.
And what did the ABCC achieve? How many Builders/Developers did they even attempt to bring anything against. 0. How many teenage girls did the ABCC harass at their mother’s homes. 1 I know personally in Brisbane.
What skin do you have in the game? What have you done that could be taken as deplorable and unjust that would give you such hatred of the Union. Would a shipped in immigrant labour force being ripped off make it better for your bottom end? Does money mean more to you then the lives of the men and woman that build these jobs. I’m not saying as a member that I always agree with actions taken but if developers and builders came to the table and had common sense discussions industrial action wouldn’t happen. When it’s a race to the bottom and the lowest denomination is always the developers and builders who don’t actually build anything. They through intimidation of withholding payment hold the proverbial gun to the heads of subbies and workers, who is the real criminal. Fair days work for a fair days pay. Don’t take swings at the low hanging fruit because you couldn’t plan or manage or price a job properly.
So I'm a bit confused here - are you saying that you disagree with Kens' run down of the Union/construction company reality (i.e. it's bullshit) but it won't make any difference or are you saying his analysis is actually correct and even so, it won't make any difference?
I’m saying that some of the worse criminality comes from Tier 1 builders employing outlaws to Union Bust. They Launder money and rip off family business using their money and influence. They try to subvert established laws and safety for the sake of deadlines when in fact it’s their own management of the job and inexcusable inexperience in what it actually takes to make the biggest of projects. They use money and influence to screw down hard working subcontractors in states like Queensland with holding ‘retention’ and spending small fortunes to subvert existing safety laws and try to force good hardworking men to endanger own lives for the sake of companies they are not shareholders of so are tricked and bullied by suits that have never used a tool in their lives and told how to run a job. The worse criminality comes from developers and builders. I’m a licensed Carpenter and when you price jobs with a fair profit margin 20-25% on a tier 1 job depending on good management, you are told to remove clauses like inclement weather which is in the construction general award (not Union EBA’s) and then expect subbies to cover the cost out of their profits. Subbies didn’t make it rain. To try and forecast when quoting which can happen months and months before a job starts. The money is there, they use it to strong arm Family businesses whittling down the money which they always take the lowest bid not the bid of subbies with proven track records of finishing jobs in time. With Dutton threatening to deregister the CFMEU don’t believe we all just go away? Or is the Union then not governed by the framework that’s keeps us knobbled? Do you understand what the Union actually does. Don’t think that every condition won by the CFMEU, ETU AND PPTEU only applies to them unions but every Australian worker bares the fruits of the loss of a few, that fought unpaid for better conditions. Superannuation, sick days, RDO’s, 36 hr week, 4 weeks annual leave don’t think the builders and developers in all their good heartedness just have them things over freely. Fought and won by Union members. I’m sure you enjoy ‘X’ amount of above mentioned conditions. I’ll ask you one question and I implore you to answer me honestly. This is one of actual fights we have over and over and over again. But a scenario first. Under legislation developers/builders are only required to supply single toilets that both men and women share. The poor women. The bastardised women. The women that work in background in the office of developer/builders, imagine telling them woman that they have to share a toilet with you. What would all the ladies in the background that work extremely hard, what would their take be. Ask the woman in your life how they would feel about having to change sanitary products not in the privacy of a woman’s exclusive environment but have to change tampons or pads in the same toilet Waz from Woodridge just laid a horrible dump in. How would the woman in your life feel about that. Ask them before answering. Please. So we constantly have to fight against a prick that has no skin in the game, although following legislation currently there and trying to enforce the deplorable standard to save his overlords a few bucks instead of given woman that work on site the dignity of having their own toilets. Imagine it’s your wife or your daughter? How would that as a man, their protector, how would that make you feel when she comes home that night distressed from the ordeal of that. Now that’s just 1 thing they try and save money with, I have 10’more. Do in your eyes they not deserve that dignity? You would be shocked how often it actually happens. Having to fight with some prick over crap like that. When site managers or supervisors send deplorable emails that sunnies will bare the costs of their workforce withdraws their labour if say a man dies on site and they won’t stop pumping the concrete even if at fault for the death. Why do you think Industrial Manslaughter was legislated? Because deplorable bosses used to have the right to kill workers without any repercussions. Do construction workers not deserve the same rights as you.
Steven. Id appreciate that on my Substack the comments are respectful. Keep to the topic, have debate but don't comment or pass opinions on other peoples personalities, supposed motivations etc. Thanks
You're being aggressive and have read too much into my original question posed to you.
I simply didn't understand your position and was seeking clarification only, it was no nasty criticism.
For what it's worth I fully agree with your stance and even hit a 'like' in your reply to me. Take a chill pill and check first - I'm not the 'type' you think I am. Good luck to you mate.
It’s a double edged sword that swings both ways. The union although aren’t perfect holds criminals ie builders who have a race to the bottom mentality and historically kill workers until Industrial Manslaughter. If anything the union stops white collar wannabes ending up in jail where they wouldn’t be brave enough to go to mainstream so would end up cosy ing up pedos, rapists and dirty cops. There is criminality everywhere. Do some research into all the dirty cops and abhorrent former cops like let’s say Dutton who left the police force because he liked to take aboriginal boys out to the forestry bash them then leave them to walk home. A man whose colleagues left him cans of dog food when he was made to leave. That could soon be PM. The politicians are worse. The police are as bad as them. The union is the least of everyone’s worries when we have minor attracted Judges protecting high up pedos and Parliament House is full of gay orgies and minor attracted men. Worst thing is I’m not making that stuff up.
I can take swings all day at the low swinging fruit instead of taking responsibility for the failures of an executive class that has no idea and no right to tell me or members how to build jobs. The biggest failure is miss management by the executive class that tries to throw its weight around when it’s actually the low hanging fruit and we can swing all day long. If deregulation happens we dont go away. We stand up and we fight back. Because you can’t swing a hammer, but in can, all day everyday.
I agree with you on management failure and incompetence and their willingness (frequently) to screw the people who work 'on the tools.' But don't think the union is any better. Ive seen too many situations where the union collude with managers to screw the workers.
I’ve seen the worst of both sides. At the end of the day again bad eggs everywhere. I’m trying to be centre on this. What Ive seen what I know what’s happened to me. I’m lucky. I’m bigger louder when I’m made to be. You go to find both sides leave you alone once they realise that once a line is crossed they can’t actually uncross it, the ego guys are fake tough on both sides. Empty vessels make the most noise if you’re picking up what I’m putting down. Once that line is crossed ie. touching and threatening you have to squash it that instant. There isn’t repercussions when all your doing is defending yourself. Always double down on tough guys with big egos. You will go to find that guys that want a fight are dumb and can’t construct an argument let alone fight. Construction reminds me of high school. The bad kids and the cool kids both had toxic pricks that always wanted to fight till it was an actual fight
Agree. I just watched a mate get fucked over $55000 in unpaid wages and the subbie in collusion gave a Deed of Release and an other of $10000 instead of the $65000 owed. I know lots of for lack of better expression dog shit occurrences that would doin your head. But the unions do more good than bad. I’m on income protection for anxiety and depression my wife has stage 4 mCRC. The union immediately raised money for me through members donations. In everything good there is a little bad in everything bad there is a little good. It’s a shame the union is the good with a little bad. The bad is usually individuals unsanctioned that try and fatten their own pockets for selfish individual purposes. I’ve seen the worse. I’ve been victim of a delegate telling on me because a boss and his underling tried to stand over me when I was a delegate because he was and still is too close to the other side but is the loudest when there is a crowd but quietly a rat and sucks upto the bosses because it will run out for him one day. Reminds me of Judas Iscariot actually. In the end they all hang themselves.
what we have to fight for is transparency, for businesses, unions, governments etc. Its the lack of transparency that creates opportunity of corruption
Correct. Bad eggs are everywhere. I’ve met more good men and woman than bad. It’s an ego issue. Unions have done a lot more good than bad and it’s always a couple bad dudes that can make what we have today for the majority. You need to remember trade unions train tradesmen they don’t train their delegates etc. Builders/Developers look for and attract cutthroat men and woman. Profit driven. They forget that’s not the person calling shots onsite they are. Pressure from a prick can lead them to be pricks themselves. Everyone needs to step back and look at it like this. What do you gain other then a wage or salary. Nothing. So why be a prick. Micro managing owners who can’t step out of day to day running their business are the ones to look out for.
Ken, this doesn't only happen at the top tier. Since the demise of the ABCC Victorian Government projects are increasingly being awarded to CFMEU EBA builders in the second and third tier, even when the non-EBA builders price is less. It seems we shouldn't bother tendering on a project if we are up against an EBA builder, we can't seem to win even though we beat them on price. The taxpayer is paying big time for this corruption!
Hi Peter.
Ive been aware that the 'process' cascades down below the top tier. One of the keys with the ABCC was that it stopped/outlawed the cascade. So it doesn't surprise me that the cascade is now in full operation. Essentially the 'free market' in construction has ceased to operate. Its now a 'political' market'.
So, what is the solution?
Amendments to the competition laws.
Given what your article says about the way unions operate, do you think new competition laws could be enforced? Big fines obviously mean nothing.
Competition laws combined with the ABCC where the key trigger was/would need to be that failure to comply means exclusion from government construction jobs both state and federal. Watch the behaviour change …,fast
As a member and Dickson resident were going to dump Dutton, and do you understand that Deregistration makes absolutely no difference, as in we don't go away and we're no longer under any regulation by government so if you actually think you know what criminality is, you've got no idea!
Describe criminality then. I’m pretty bloody aware of it. But my point is that it’s the breaking of the commercial triggers that’s the essence of suppressing criminality
Deregister criminal developers. Make them personally accountable when their lack of foresight, management and leadership causes a death. Hold them accountable, lock them up and things would change for the better real quick when they are forced to be accountable. Commercial construction is the realm of white collar criminals and muderers who will be held accountable for their lack of actual talent.
The ABCC applied sanctions against corrupt builders just as it did against corrupt unions. Thats the key to understanding the corruption. It takes two. Sanctions must be taken against all criminals, whether they are in the unions or developers.
And what did the ABCC achieve? How many Builders/Developers did they even attempt to bring anything against. 0. How many teenage girls did the ABCC harass at their mother’s homes. 1 I know personally in Brisbane.
What skin do you have in the game? What have you done that could be taken as deplorable and unjust that would give you such hatred of the Union. Would a shipped in immigrant labour force being ripped off make it better for your bottom end? Does money mean more to you then the lives of the men and woman that build these jobs. I’m not saying as a member that I always agree with actions taken but if developers and builders came to the table and had common sense discussions industrial action wouldn’t happen. When it’s a race to the bottom and the lowest denomination is always the developers and builders who don’t actually build anything. They through intimidation of withholding payment hold the proverbial gun to the heads of subbies and workers, who is the real criminal. Fair days work for a fair days pay. Don’t take swings at the low hanging fruit because you couldn’t plan or manage or price a job properly.
So I'm a bit confused here - are you saying that you disagree with Kens' run down of the Union/construction company reality (i.e. it's bullshit) but it won't make any difference or are you saying his analysis is actually correct and even so, it won't make any difference?
I’m saying that some of the worse criminality comes from Tier 1 builders employing outlaws to Union Bust. They Launder money and rip off family business using their money and influence. They try to subvert established laws and safety for the sake of deadlines when in fact it’s their own management of the job and inexcusable inexperience in what it actually takes to make the biggest of projects. They use money and influence to screw down hard working subcontractors in states like Queensland with holding ‘retention’ and spending small fortunes to subvert existing safety laws and try to force good hardworking men to endanger own lives for the sake of companies they are not shareholders of so are tricked and bullied by suits that have never used a tool in their lives and told how to run a job. The worse criminality comes from developers and builders. I’m a licensed Carpenter and when you price jobs with a fair profit margin 20-25% on a tier 1 job depending on good management, you are told to remove clauses like inclement weather which is in the construction general award (not Union EBA’s) and then expect subbies to cover the cost out of their profits. Subbies didn’t make it rain. To try and forecast when quoting which can happen months and months before a job starts. The money is there, they use it to strong arm Family businesses whittling down the money which they always take the lowest bid not the bid of subbies with proven track records of finishing jobs in time. With Dutton threatening to deregister the CFMEU don’t believe we all just go away? Or is the Union then not governed by the framework that’s keeps us knobbled? Do you understand what the Union actually does. Don’t think that every condition won by the CFMEU, ETU AND PPTEU only applies to them unions but every Australian worker bares the fruits of the loss of a few, that fought unpaid for better conditions. Superannuation, sick days, RDO’s, 36 hr week, 4 weeks annual leave don’t think the builders and developers in all their good heartedness just have them things over freely. Fought and won by Union members. I’m sure you enjoy ‘X’ amount of above mentioned conditions. I’ll ask you one question and I implore you to answer me honestly. This is one of actual fights we have over and over and over again. But a scenario first. Under legislation developers/builders are only required to supply single toilets that both men and women share. The poor women. The bastardised women. The women that work in background in the office of developer/builders, imagine telling them woman that they have to share a toilet with you. What would all the ladies in the background that work extremely hard, what would their take be. Ask the woman in your life how they would feel about having to change sanitary products not in the privacy of a woman’s exclusive environment but have to change tampons or pads in the same toilet Waz from Woodridge just laid a horrible dump in. How would the woman in your life feel about that. Ask them before answering. Please. So we constantly have to fight against a prick that has no skin in the game, although following legislation currently there and trying to enforce the deplorable standard to save his overlords a few bucks instead of given woman that work on site the dignity of having their own toilets. Imagine it’s your wife or your daughter? How would that as a man, their protector, how would that make you feel when she comes home that night distressed from the ordeal of that. Now that’s just 1 thing they try and save money with, I have 10’more. Do in your eyes they not deserve that dignity? You would be shocked how often it actually happens. Having to fight with some prick over crap like that. When site managers or supervisors send deplorable emails that sunnies will bare the costs of their workforce withdraws their labour if say a man dies on site and they won’t stop pumping the concrete even if at fault for the death. Why do you think Industrial Manslaughter was legislated? Because deplorable bosses used to have the right to kill workers without any repercussions. Do construction workers not deserve the same rights as you.
Stay that way Henri not here to be an apologist to your type
Steven. Id appreciate that on my Substack the comments are respectful. Keep to the topic, have debate but don't comment or pass opinions on other peoples personalities, supposed motivations etc. Thanks
You're being aggressive and have read too much into my original question posed to you.
I simply didn't understand your position and was seeking clarification only, it was no nasty criticism.
For what it's worth I fully agree with your stance and even hit a 'like' in your reply to me. Take a chill pill and check first - I'm not the 'type' you think I am. Good luck to you mate.
It’s a double edged sword that swings both ways. The union although aren’t perfect holds criminals ie builders who have a race to the bottom mentality and historically kill workers until Industrial Manslaughter. If anything the union stops white collar wannabes ending up in jail where they wouldn’t be brave enough to go to mainstream so would end up cosy ing up pedos, rapists and dirty cops. There is criminality everywhere. Do some research into all the dirty cops and abhorrent former cops like let’s say Dutton who left the police force because he liked to take aboriginal boys out to the forestry bash them then leave them to walk home. A man whose colleagues left him cans of dog food when he was made to leave. That could soon be PM. The politicians are worse. The police are as bad as them. The union is the least of everyone’s worries when we have minor attracted Judges protecting high up pedos and Parliament House is full of gay orgies and minor attracted men. Worst thing is I’m not making that stuff up.
I can take swings all day at the low swinging fruit instead of taking responsibility for the failures of an executive class that has no idea and no right to tell me or members how to build jobs. The biggest failure is miss management by the executive class that tries to throw its weight around when it’s actually the low hanging fruit and we can swing all day long. If deregulation happens we dont go away. We stand up and we fight back. Because you can’t swing a hammer, but in can, all day everyday.
I agree with you on management failure and incompetence and their willingness (frequently) to screw the people who work 'on the tools.' But don't think the union is any better. Ive seen too many situations where the union collude with managers to screw the workers.
I’ve seen the worst of both sides. At the end of the day again bad eggs everywhere. I’m trying to be centre on this. What Ive seen what I know what’s happened to me. I’m lucky. I’m bigger louder when I’m made to be. You go to find both sides leave you alone once they realise that once a line is crossed they can’t actually uncross it, the ego guys are fake tough on both sides. Empty vessels make the most noise if you’re picking up what I’m putting down. Once that line is crossed ie. touching and threatening you have to squash it that instant. There isn’t repercussions when all your doing is defending yourself. Always double down on tough guys with big egos. You will go to find that guys that want a fight are dumb and can’t construct an argument let alone fight. Construction reminds me of high school. The bad kids and the cool kids both had toxic pricks that always wanted to fight till it was an actual fight
Agree. I just watched a mate get fucked over $55000 in unpaid wages and the subbie in collusion gave a Deed of Release and an other of $10000 instead of the $65000 owed. I know lots of for lack of better expression dog shit occurrences that would doin your head. But the unions do more good than bad. I’m on income protection for anxiety and depression my wife has stage 4 mCRC. The union immediately raised money for me through members donations. In everything good there is a little bad in everything bad there is a little good. It’s a shame the union is the good with a little bad. The bad is usually individuals unsanctioned that try and fatten their own pockets for selfish individual purposes. I’ve seen the worse. I’ve been victim of a delegate telling on me because a boss and his underling tried to stand over me when I was a delegate because he was and still is too close to the other side but is the loudest when there is a crowd but quietly a rat and sucks upto the bosses because it will run out for him one day. Reminds me of Judas Iscariot actually. In the end they all hang themselves.
what we have to fight for is transparency, for businesses, unions, governments etc. Its the lack of transparency that creates opportunity of corruption
Correct. Bad eggs are everywhere. I’ve met more good men and woman than bad. It’s an ego issue. Unions have done a lot more good than bad and it’s always a couple bad dudes that can make what we have today for the majority. You need to remember trade unions train tradesmen they don’t train their delegates etc. Builders/Developers look for and attract cutthroat men and woman. Profit driven. They forget that’s not the person calling shots onsite they are. Pressure from a prick can lead them to be pricks themselves. Everyone needs to step back and look at it like this. What do you gain other then a wage or salary. Nothing. So why be a prick. Micro managing owners who can’t step out of day to day running their business are the ones to look out for.